Official reacts to Tryon concerns
By MICHAEL ANICH, The Leader-HeraldPERTH - State Office of Children & Family Services Commissioner Gladys Carrion Tuesday personally responded to Fulton County's two state legislators' concerns about conditions at the Tryon Residential Center.
Carrion met in Albany with state Sen. Hugh T. Farley, R-Niskayuna, and state Assemblyman Marc W. Butler, R-Newport, at the State Capitol Building, hand-delivering a three-page letter to the lawmakers.
After the meeting, both Farley and Butler said they weren't satisfied with Carrion's response to the Tryon situation.
"Both Marc and I were somewhat disappointed that all her focus was on the [Tryon] residents and not on the staff," Farley said. "I think she wants to do away with these Tryon types of facilities and put them out in the community."
Butler noted the number of residents at Tryon, which has a 180-resident capacity, is down to 91 residents.
"We kind of got the impression they're [OCFS] going to downsize it," Farley said.
The legislators said Carrion didn't seem as worried about the welfare of the staff as she did about the residents.
"It continues to cause some questions in my mind," Farley said.
"We're concerned about the safety of the staff, too," Butler added.
The lawmakers also said Carrion indicated Tryon Boys Limited Secure Director Roger Rascoe is leaving his job and a new director will take over this week. She said the staff will be getting more training.
Farley and Butler said Carrion feels cameras show Tryon staff are acting "more inappropriately" with incidents against residents than at about 30 other youth detention facilities in the state.
"She was quite hard on Tryon," the senator said.
Farley and Butler had written a letter Aug. 1 to Carrion, expressing concerns based on a July 27 Leader-Herald story quoting recent former employees who said conditions at the state's Tryon campus on County Highway 107 are worsening and the juvenile residents are becoming more troublesome.
In her response, the OCFS commissioner wrote that when she was named to her position last year, she found a "system trapped in the past."
She said New York state's juvenile justice system has failed to recognize that the "vast majority" of children are suffering from mental health disorders, substance or alcohol abuse and special- education needs.
In a conference call this morning, Farley and Butler said Carrion's "essential point" was that most of the Tryon residents have mental health disorders and have to be treated as such.
"My first thought is that while I'm sympathetic, it's not less dangerous to the staff," Butler said.
Farley said he and Butler plan to meet with Civil Service Employees Association representatives today about Tryon.
"As you know, the system utilized a corrections-based model that relied on excessive use of restraints to control children suffering from post-traumatic stress, conduct or anxiety disorders; depression and developmental disorders," Carrion wrote to Farley and Butler. "As a result of this corrections-based system, children in OCFS custody are not getting better; instead, after release, 80 percent of them were getting arrested again within three years."
Carrion wrote that OCFS takes the concerns of staff "very seriously." She said she considers the staff members "agents of change" as the state transforms the juvenile justice system.
"Children aged 10 to 18 cannot be treated like adults," Carrion wrote. "The scientific research has firmly established that their brains are still developing. With proper diagnoses, these children can be treated and rehabilitated so that they can reach their full potential as adults."
Carrion said she initiated a plan to "transform" the juvenile justice system to better serve children and their families and reduce the recidivism rate, which also helps make neighborhoods safer.
She said the transformation process includes: supporting local counties' diversion programs to keep children out of the system, supporting community-based alternatives-to-incarceration programs, hiring additional mental health staff, and establishing "discrete" mental health and substance abuse units.
Carrion wrote that she also wants to hire more teachers, work collaboratively across state agencies to access their expertise and resources to improve OCFS' services and train agency personnel in "proven trauma-informed therapies."
Tryon was the scene of an incident that preceded the Nov. 18, 2006, death of 15-year-old Tryon resident Darryl Thompson of the Bronx. A Fulton County grand jury in April 2007 cleared two former Tryon youth division aides - John P. Johnson and Robert Murphy - of wrongdoing in the restraint of Thompson before his death.
"The agency has aggressively been reducing the number of restraints used on children, which are counterproductive and often result in children and staff getting hurt," Carrion wrote. "As you are both well aware, a child at Tryon Residential Center died following a restraint in November 2006. The current rate of injuries to children and staff from restraints is unacceptable."
Carrion said "many" of the OCFS employees have embraced proven methods of dealing with children, but "for some at Tryon, reform has been a challenge and they are pushing back."
"It pains me to read some of the negative comments these employees have posted on the Web site of a local Fulton County newspaper," Carrion wrote. "They've written that the children in OCFS custody are 'hateful' and 'evil' and should be restrained with pepper spray and put to work in 'chain gangs.'"
"Clearly, OCFS needs to continue to expand and enhance its intensive training program in trauma-informed therapies that are proven to work," Carrion wrote. "The agency will also reinforce dialectic behavior therapy, which helps children who are struggling to manage their emotions, provide mental health training for non-clinical staff and offer refresher courses in sanctuary trauma-informed intervention."
David Smingler, an aide for Farley, said Tuesday Carrion was asked by Farley and Butler if she could grant a long-sought interview with The Leader-Herald to respond to some of the comments the newspaper has received in recent weeks at Tryon.
Smingler said the OCFS commissioner responded she never will grant The Leader-Herald an interview and proceeded to grant interviews to two broadcast news outlets - Capital News 9 in Albany and New York 1 from New York City.
"We were kind of upset with her relationship with the [local] media," Farley said.
Michael Anich covers Fulton County and Johnstown. He can be reached at johnstown@leaderherald.com.
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wanderer10
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08-26-08 9:53 PM
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It's not so much that Tryon doesn't need a therapeutic approach - it's that until order and safety are restored - nothing positive can be done. Anyone remember Maslow's Hierarchy? What comes first??????? Basic Needs then SAFETY!!!! Simple psych 101. For an administration that claims to believe in mental health treatment, they have missed the very basics. In so many facilities, the best programs and services to the kids have been destroyed by the uncontrollable behavior of gang members and sociopaths. (and no - I'm not being derogatory - that is the accurate description of a powerful few). Of course, our commissioner has no true interest in the kids - she has made her agenda perfectly clear - close us down and divert the money to NYC. How's it working so far?????????
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smithe
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08-22-08 3:19 PM
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Does anybody remember the Adventure Program? Now you know that I know what I am saying here. The vast magority of you should know by now that this administrative approach is cyclical. Republican Governors and their appointed directors tend to take a more corrections type attituded, while Democratic Governors take and their appointed directors take a softer approach, which never works. Joe Paz makes a VERY good point. MOST directors have NEVER worked the floor and have only a conceptual idea of how theories work. What are staff members supposed to do when the administration doesn't support them? Ms. Carrion needs to spend some time on the floor at Tryon like I did, as a regular staff member in cognito, and her eyes will open as long as the residents don't know who she is. Otherwise they will act like the "misunderstood children " she believes them to be. A theraputic counseling milieu is NOT what Tryon needs.
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beenthere2
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08-21-08 10:15 PM
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Boathouseblues: No attitude, just facts. You cannot restrain residents for destroying state property, spitting at you , cursing you out, or threatening you. My children were not allowed to do any of the above with out being held accountable for their actions. Taxpayers are paying $$$ everyday for damages done by residents. So where do you see attitude, I was just stating the facts. "if a resident is trashing the place, just take a breather" you just verified what I said is true. I personally wouldn't "take a breather" if my kids were tashing my house, I'd hold them accountable and isn't that what OCFS wants, for us to treat these kids like we would our own?
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heardenough
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08-21-08 10:10 PM
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Boathouseblues 08-20-08 9:39 PM - The staff can not just take a breather and catch some fresh air. They can not leave any residents unsupervised, not even one resident for one minute. Usually when they "Trash the Place" they are destroying the furniture in there rooms to create weapons like the board they hit the staff with. The staff have to attempt to deescalate the youth, they can not just walk away, they also have to continue to supervise all other residents on there unit 90% of the time it is a distraction so someone else can do something else more serious.
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ignoredissue
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08-21-08 7:06 PM
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Google search - Lawmakers react to Tryon troubles. It is on Capital news 9 today. Some of Carrions statements to the State officials, again blaming the staff working with the residents for all the problems!!! "Tryon has been a very troubled facility for a number of years," Said Carrion" "Carrion said OCFS is changing its approach with residents, focusing on treatment rather than punishment. She told us the problems at Tryon stem from the workers themselves." "In a letter hand delivered to Butler she wrote: "Many of our employees have embraced these proven methods; for some at Tryon, reform has been a challenge and they are pushing back. We need to find another way other than brute force to control our residents.” "There's a new administration at the facility and Carrion says she's going to continue to push for more staff training. But she also says closing or reconfiguring Tryon is a possibility."
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mandatedemployee
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08-21-08 6:45 PM
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I just want to thank Dr. Ortiz, whom I am being treated by, for stepping up to the plate and giving an opinion about the staff conditions. All of a sudden after more than 40 years of housing youths and countless programs Ms. Carrion comes in and has the ultimate answers? I have my doubts since I live it every day. Safety and discipline are the basics, NOT hugs!!
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patsfan
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08-21-08 6:13 PM
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Speaking as a former staff at Tryon(1994-2000) and reading all this forum,I have bit my tounge for weeks. Any one who has not stepped foot in the facility need not even put in their two cents.To sit here and read some of these comments by people who have no idea what they are talking about makes me laugh. Hang in there fellas, you are ALL better than this!! And hopefully all your years of service wont go unnoticed.
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Schenectady
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08-21-08 4:32 PM
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It would be very easy let Ms. Carrion pull a shift or two incognito!! I think she forgets why these people are there in the 1st place.
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susieq67
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08-21-08 3:32 PM
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She isn't subjected to the kids misbehaving like the staff is ! She does not have to or worry about a " one on one " altercation every day when she punches that clock !!!!!!!!
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InnocentParty
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08-21-08 12:32 PM
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LOL oops...my post contained the word that stands for donkey in it. *giggles*
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mandatedemployee
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08-21-08 9:27 AM
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attentionyet without order and discipline sanctuary or any other program will not work. You are focusing on how we plan to repair the abuses, rapes etc. Until someone realizes that without order or discipline there can be no change because even the children feel unsafe so resort to their street survival skills. I do not pretend to be a psychologist but every single staff is trained that if a youth does not feel safe they will act out. This is exactly what is happening now due to Ms. Carrion's policies. If the ultimate goal was to throw up smoke and mirrors that staff cannot do their job and have no compassion so we can close the facility Ms. Carrion is succeeding.
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yeoman33
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08-20-08 10:38 PM
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We have a problem in our local area that needs to be corrected. Staff and residents at Tryon are being hurt, abused, and neglected. These problems should not be tolerated and changes need to be made to correct the problems. The staff at Tryon are not, I say are not, dealing with angels. Far from it. These are children who have done from stealing candy to murdering their grandparents. The children will do harm to each other and staff for looking at them the wrong way. I agree more than nothing should be done to discipline these children. There should be negative consequences for their negative behaviors, not rewards. I believe Tryon should be about rehabilitation, teaching the residents an alternative to the violent behaviors they have become accustom to. Changes to the present system should be embraced by all. What is the answer to the problem? I do not know but the fighting between staff and management is surely not the answer. Work together to solve the problem.
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dalejkb
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08-20-08 10:29 PM
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It's necessary to show concern for the kids. Yes they are in foster care, and yes they do need to have direction given in a nurturing way. But there is an important thing called consequences (this is very different from punishment, but requires action to respond to the negative and dangerous behavior that is displayed by SOME of the kids. That doesn't mean that they should be abused in any way, but that they should be kept in an area or setting that provides safety for their peers and the staff. Foster Care or not, they are in this setting to have rehabilitation and retraining, and for some, the rehab or retraining must be stricter than it is for the general population there. Until this occurs, the setting will be dangerous for both staff and peers. If they don't receive consequences for unacceptable behaviors they will learn that their brutish ways are accepted and earns them undeserved respect from those who are weaker or who are not empowered to protect themselves
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Attentionyet
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08-20-08 9:43 PM
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And one more thing. Lets put leadership in there that will step up to the plate and shut up the naysayers, get training in there and run the Sanctuary Model. A Leader that by work location will select staff that are adaptable, promote change, and cherish the kids they reach and let other staff mow grass in an empty facility. Reality is that until someone comes into the place that embraces kids in a Foster Care situation (Yes the kids at Tryon are in Foster Care) and demands that the staff assumes the role of Foster Parents and insists that the environment is one of acknowledgment and treatment for traumatized people. The culture may have a shot at changing. Right now administrators allow staff to chew tobacco. Get Real. Place is doomed. Best of luck in the bumping scenario, making your seniority count somewhere, and just perhaps something or someone will go out there without political alliances. Rascoe just added to his average salary for retirement. Take a look at who he kne
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Boathouseblues
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08-20-08 9:39 PM
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Right on, Attentionyet! If you go to work with the attitude expressed by Beenthere2, I'm not surprised that things happen. Doesn't mean that the staff should feel on their bodies the bitterness experienced by the kids, just that they should have a little understanding. Hey, if the kids "trash the place", then take a breather and catch some fresh air!
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Attentionyet
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08-20-08 9:32 PM
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When will you people realize that what is happening IS NOT working. That includes all staff at Tryon. How dare anyone refer and label these youth as anything other than children.Children that have issues stemming from physical and sexual abuse, neglect, and separation issues. Children that have been severely traumatized and experienced by age 10 more trauma then the people writing nasty comments about them. Children that are crying for support and a trusting adult and you the change agents are seething about them and calling them dirt.How dare you continue to butter your bread and hate the very traumatized children that are at Tryon? I feel for those staff and families that are traumatized by injury due to an unsafe environment. There was never any directive to throw up your hands and step back and have both staff and kids relive trauma over and over. Staff need to be open to new ways of doing business and take it to the bank with their paychecks that are not long for their pockets.
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beenthere2
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08-20-08 9:30 PM
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Ratios don't matter if kids are allowed to wild out and destroy everything and no one can stop them. Whether you have one staff or 20, if your hands are tied it just amounts to more people standing by helplessly because they are not allowed to do anything. Policy says destruction of property is no reason to put your hands on a kid. (Neither is spitting in your face, cursing you out, threatening you, etc. I didn't allow my kids destroy everything in their reach with no reprecussions, these kids are criminals and they get away with this type of behavior. If Gov. Patterson wants to save some money why doesn't he investigate the cost in $$$ Ms. Carrion's no hands policies have caused as residents smash furniture, doors, windows, etc, trashing everything they feel like and when the storm is over...just give them new. This is going on at OCFS facilities across the state, not just at Tryon. It would be interesting to see just how much our taxpayers are paying to let these kids run wild.
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beenthere2
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08-20-08 9:17 PM
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Just on channel 9 news: Schenectady school added to list of most dangeous schools. Homocide, sexual assaults, weapons among problems listed. Has anyone noticed that as OCFS (DFY) has downsized and kids commiting crimes remain in community based "programs" the violence in our public schools has escalated? Years ago public schools were safe for our kids...oh, that's right,that was back when if a kid commited a crime he/she didn't get a dozen chances,you got locked up the first time, shipped away from your family and friends. (for a lot of them it was a blessing to b e removed from a horrible home life.) Too expensive to lock kids up they said..well our public schools are paying the price. As Carrion seeks to close OCFS facilities and keep kids in communities the schools will just get more and more dangerous for the innocent kids who actually want an education.
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Zaltan
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08-20-08 9:09 PM
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The bottom line is that all we're asking is to have a place of employment that is safe and secure for everyone. No one should ever have to go to work in a place that is not safe, no one. This goes way beyond differences of opinions. Ms. Carrion, give us a place that is truly safe for all, that's all we're asking. How is that unreasonable?
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Boathouseblues
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08-20-08 8:41 PM
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What's the staff to youth ratio? What percentage of youth are there for violent crime?
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morningstar
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08-20-08 8:38 PM
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See the bus post, Buckeye. And you should not worry so much about me- it seems to be causing you stress. I did my homework to the best of my ability so far and still don't know the answer to your "truth", but I do have it in me to admit it if I have been corrected, so just be patient. For the record, I only claimed to defend myself from all of the people who trash teachers in general as the root of all evil. What I know of the situation with GESD teachers voting to pay more for insurance I am impressed with. Until I know any otherwise, I stand by that. And, no, I peeked on for a few minutes a couple of times today, but was certainly not on all day.
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buckeye
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08-20-08 8:24 PM
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Come on morningstar, you've posted all day. You come on here yesterday making some pretty bold statements and when I challenge you to get the truth you disappear. Did you really think I would just forget about it? Did you wonder why none of the people you defended never posted? Trust me, they are on here. Doesn't it make you ask yourself why? When you find the answer I will tell you why I said what I said.
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birddie
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08-20-08 8:12 PM
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It appears as thought the Ms Carrion wants to send these troubled youth back to there own communities. I wonder if the good people of these neighborhoods will welcome with open arms there children back.Im sure there gang members welcome them back. These communities are full of crime and need all the help that is available. Lord only knows what crimes these children have committed that they have not been caught with? I estimate for every conviction, that person has gotten away with doing the same crime 10x before being caught? Intersting. And she wants to close facilities. Its no wonder that Tryon is is having the difficulties that exist. OCFS need to take a closer look at what direction they are heading. How many more victums are out there just waiting to be victumized by these troubled youth. Lets hope its not yours?
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morningstar
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08-20-08 8:10 PM
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Sorry, Buckeye, busy day. Junior, I like your perspective on this, and focusing on the children and families of these workers who are so clearly put in danger every day is probably more than she can handle since she is so sensitive that she won't even face the LH!!! I only wonder what her real agenda is. If she does want to keep the CRIMINALS close to home, why? Is there something in it for her to keep visitor money closer to the city? Where does the kickback come from? I just wonder.
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RobertG
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08-20-08 8:07 PM
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Clearly there is a huge problem @ Tryon and also @ other OCFS facilities across the state. In her exuberance to save kid, Ms. Carrion has caused so many problems for the incarcerated youth of NY and the staff that work with them.Why do we have such an incompetent commissioner leading this large organization? I try to convince myself that Ms. Carrion really does care about kids but her actions in governing OCFS do not seem consistent with this. Ms. Carrion continues to change many of the guidelines/policies for OCFS and the residents are slowly but surely running the facilities.The agencies are becoming unsafe for the youth and the staff that serve them and this is all because of the failed leadership of our commisioner. Governor Paterson needs to look into the decline of OCFS under the leadership of Ms. Carrion.
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