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Education will change

May 16, 2013

Music teachers, both in this state and across the country, are caught between a rock and a hard plac....

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(31)

Ron1960

May-16-13 4:06 PM

Discobulos, Well said and could not agree more.

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Pards13

May-16-13 4:30 PM

All three are important. My kids have been involved in music (choir), arts (plays), and sports (two season athletes). Each activity brought something different to the table. I do agree that sports are looked at more favorably. All you have to do is look at society. Some guy who can run fast is paid much more than someone who is a virtuoso on the violin. The one difference that I have seen is the booster clubs. Sports booster clubs seem to be more active than the arts. Being involved in all of them over the years it really does not matter because in the last ten years there has been a decline in parental participation in the clubs. We have become a nation of "someone (not me) should do something. Instead of whining about get involved. Go to game, go to a play. Contribute time or money. Those kids are your future, without them we are doomed.

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Hilltopper

May-16-13 5:15 PM

Leader Herald: Your editorial states, "Study after study demonstrates the importance of music education in the development of children, including higher test scores, more creative students, better language development and an improved ability to see how things fit together." While I am not disputing your statement, please list the studies you speak of. I would like to read them, as I am sure you have.

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TiredOfTax

May-16-13 7:20 PM

Being a part of a lot of activities when I was growing up I believe that a well rounded and active childhood is important for a well rounded education. I believe that music, art and sports whether they lead to a career or not develop discipline and persistence as well as a strong character. Every individual is different, and has different interests if all options are removed then it is the child that is short changed. A well rounded properly encouraged childhood leads to a healthy and happier life. We need it all... not what one thinks everyone needs.

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rschweizer

May-16-13 8:28 PM

Hilltopper, I don't think it's a myth that music and the arts have a huge impact on academics from an early age, along with learning another language, which actually 'trains' the brain to approach logic from more than one route an leads to well-rounded people overall. And there have in fact been multiple studies.

Tied with sports, which leads to discipline if it's coached the right way and paired at equal level with academics and not ABOVE it like local high schools treat it, and you have some pretty good academically capable students and young scholars.

I sometimes don't agree with LH editorials, but this is one well-written piece here.

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Hilltopper

May-16-13 9:23 PM

All I would like is the LH to pass along the studies they based the editorial on so I can read them. The fact that our students rank something like 17th world wide in reading and 32nd in math certainly is something that needs improvement. South Korea was tops, music is part of the program, but they go to school year round and the learning experience is called "intense". If they had only 180 days to learn, how would they juggle music and art? Do they play sports? I don't know but I'm sure someone will tell me.

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Ron1960

May-17-13 6:55 AM

I think that some of you are missing some very important points. I agree that all students should have those options. But what do you do with a child that has no interest in music, the arts or sports. Are you going to force that child to take part in it? Yes a sports star canearn as much or more than some one in the music or arts in much less time, but by the same token with one misstep can be put out of the sports for life. Why would any parent want their child to be involved in sports today when just about everytime you hear the news there is some sports figure that is or has been involved in thing most people consider wrong. And as for the high school coaches treating the students fairly, you need to wake up and smell the coffee because there are many high school coaches who will only allow certain students to play in the game against another school.

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Ron1960

May-17-13 7:07 AM

to continue, there are students wqho almost never get to play in the game against another school but they worked just as hard as the one who plays every game. There are way to many coaches out there who teach the students that winning is the only thing and that in my opinion does not benefit the student. And with all the sports related injuries we are now heaqring about that has to play a big part in how the sports are funded, where has the schools professionals been for all these years and have allowed so many young kids to be injured playing sports that in many cases are now showing up to be health problems for the former sports star, and with so much violence going on is the sports field I would not spend a dime on sports just to see some one be injured for no reason other that the coachs told the player this is the only way we can win. But the first thing that schools need to do is find ways to keep the students in school there are way to many kids walking the streets.

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usedtolivethere

May-17-13 8:39 AM

Ron, you sound like the kid that sat the bench, or you had kids that did. I never saw a coach that would sit a kid that could help them win. Modified is for development, JV is to develop Varsity Players and Varsity is to win. Participation is for intramurals. Were you at all of these practices to verify these bench-warmers were working as hard as the starters? I agree that favoritism or nepotism happens frequently in youth sports, but I've been around a long time and have rarely seen it in modified or high school sports. You seem to have some baggage.

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usedtolivethere

May-17-13 8:40 AM

oh and by the way, my parents made sure that I was in school. the school had little to do with it. Once again, blaming schools for poor parenting

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Ron1960

May-17-13 9:56 AM

useto, No I was not the kid that sat on the bench nor did I have kids that did. And you say you have been around a long time well at 72 I think I have been around a day or two.I have sse the things I posted about. And now days when the kids are supposed to be in school it is the schools responsibility as well as the parents. Iknow that when I was in school if you were supposed tobe in school and were not they had an officer looking for you and when he found you he took you to school and the school would contact your parents and work to get the situation corrected. But the only thing the school officials are interested in now days is how much they get for doing much less than teachers did in my school days.

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Pards13

May-17-13 10:00 AM

My kids were in both sports and arts after school activities. Both kept them from becoming couch potatoes which last I knew was a major problem (obesity) that contributes to a whole host of health issues. Can sports be safer? Yes. I would rather take the risk of injury rather than other problems like drugs. Idle hands are the devil's playground.

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usedtolivethere

May-17-13 1:36 PM

But Ron, the mantra of many of today's parents is "Don't tell me what to do with my children" and we can't afford truant officers. Your statement about what school officials are interested in is without foundation. Please cite your source for that.

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rschweizer

May-17-13 3:04 PM

usedtolivethere, to give you an idea of what Ron may be talking about, we have family in the town of Amsterdam where all the kids in the family played sports. When my brother-in-law wanted to pull his son (a very good athlete) off the football team because his grades slipped, the coach made a personal visit to their house to convince my brother-in-law that he was making some sort of mistake by not letting his kid play.

Can you imagine that?

And for the record, VERY rarely do any local athletes go onto play sports on the college level above Division III. ALl that effort on the coach's part for little return.

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Ron1960

May-17-13 3:10 PM

Usedto, Are you that uninformed about what the school officials are primarly intrested in these days. Look at the anual wages and benefits they get to work 183 days per year, then take a real close lookk at what the teachers are getting in pensions they get more in pensions than most people who work full time for 48 weeks out of the year with over time. There in one retired teacher on the FC bos whos pension is $57000 per year. Then look at what the superintendents are being paid are you telling me that it cost them that much more to live than it does you and many others . If you can not see that then your one sick fool. Do we not have police officers who paqtrol the streets and see these kids roaming the streets every day, if the police would just pick them up and take them back to the school and then that would stop quite a group of them from skipping school and would in my opinion stop much of the vandalism.

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Ron1960

May-17-13 3:12 PM

to continue why are you and many others not contacting the state and federal legislators aqbout getting the law changed so that the parents are held responsible for their childern.

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Hilltopper

May-17-13 4:11 PM

Gloversville School District may make cuts to the music and arts, but they always bought in to the importance of sports. The long tenured AD is enjoying a retirement salary in excess of 90K. Granted, he has some serious calluses on his backside, mostly from parents kissing up to him so their Johnny can be the next Eli Manning. Ah, the importance of being part of the team when the Friday night under the lights mentality reigns supreme.

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lizzie

May-17-13 4:32 PM

Let's look at the bigger picture. I have one child out of college, one with a semester left. Neither has taken a single art or music class, and neither has played sports. (In HS, one played one didn't, neither chose music or art electives)

Without the benefit of art, music or sports, the one with a semester left will graduate summa****laude, in a major that inlcudes mostly science and math classes. He hasn't taken a single math class in 4 years,because he had enough college credits from Gloversville. But, he does tutor other students in Math.

For every study that says those classes are necessary, there's a study that will tell you they aren't. Frankly, it depends on the student. And let's face it, what percentage of college graduates chose an art or music major? My guess is, it's pretty small, and what percentage of those that do actually make a living wage in art or music professions.

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Hilltopper

May-17-13 5:41 PM

Lizzie: You have proven it is possible to skip music and art and still be a good student. I don't follow one point. If he is graduating with a degree that includes mostly math and science, how is it that he took no math classes in college? Did he take graduate level courses at GHS also? Things sound dandy until an employer or grad school looks at the transcript. Best wish to him.

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usedtolivethere

May-17-13 5:47 PM

Someone please explain why not making a living in sports as a career translates to sports being superfluous in high school? and Ron, don't start with the 180 day and nobody works argument. It is old and it is wrong. Were you a teacher?

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JoePhillip

May-17-13 5:59 PM

Exactly, usedto. Why is everything about "getting a job"/living wage, or playing sports professionally or at a Division 1 school. There are so many immeasurable things, like quality of life, the experience of a team, aesthetics, etc. And yes, I know you have to pay the rent, but you have to LIVE A LIFE too.

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lizzie

May-17-13 6:09 PM

@Hilltopper - Yup - he had all his college math requirements at GHS. He took AP everything, so he didn't need any more math for his major. When my oldest switched from UMass to Nashua Community College, she didn't need any either because of what she had there and at GHS.

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lizzie

May-17-13 6:10 PM

Oh, and he'll be graduating in December 2013 rather than May 2014.

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Hilltopper

May-17-13 6:22 PM

I have mixed feelings regarding HS sports. A majority of kids play HS sports because they are fun, they want to be popular, and it resemble playing as a child. Athletic ability trumps smarts as far as sports go. But, if everbody does it, what value does it have to distinguish you from all the other jocks and jocketts? Many good colleges put emphasis on community service, volunteerism and leadership skills. Put your HS football experience on a job application and see what good it does.

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Hilltopper

May-17-13 6:49 PM

Blowing your knee out or suffering a few concussions while laying someone out because you have a tinker toy helmet certainly leads to quality of life issues. It may lead to giving up golf in July and August, or forgetting where you parked your car when you leave Partners' because you had your bell rung a few too many times. Its not about money, but do you get a stipend for coaching?

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